Dinner and a book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.

Chemist Elizabeth Zott is not your average woman, but she would say there's no such thing as an average woman.

And it happened nearly two years ago.

A masters candidate with only ten days left before a graduation when she was still in the lab at 9 p.m.. Certain she'd found a problem with the test protocol as she tapped a freshly sharpened number two pencil against the paper, weighing her hunch.

She heard the door open.

Hello?

She called.

She wasn't expecting anyone.

You're still here?

Said her voice free of surprise.

Her advisor.

Oh, hello, Dr. Myers.

She said, looking up?

Yes.

Just going over the test protocol for tomorrow.

I think I found a problem.

He opened the door a little wider, stepping inside.

I didn't ask you to do that.

He said, his voice edgy with irritation.

I told you it was all set.

I know, she said, but I wanted to give it one last look.

The one last look approach wasn't something Elizabeth liked to do.

It was something she knew she had to do to maintain her position on Maya's all male research team.

Not that she really cared about his research.

His was safe stuff.

Not at all groundbreaking.

Despite a notable lack of creativity paired with an alarming absence of new discoveries, Myers was considered one of the top DNA researchers in the United States.

Elizabeth didn't like Myers.

No one did, except possibly UCLA, who loved him because the man published more papers than anyone in the field.

Myers Secret.

He didn't write the papers.

His graduate students did, but he always took full credit for every word.

It's the early 1960s and her all male team at the Research Institute takes a very unscientific view of equality, except for one man, Calvin Evans, the lonely, brilliant Nobel Prize nominated grudge holder who falls in love with her mind.

True Chemistry Results in Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus.

Let's meet my guest Evie Kirkwood who is as vibrant as our protagonist today.

Welcome.

Thank you, Gail.

That's quite an.

Intro.

It is quite a yes.

My pleasure.

But look at us.

We are ready for this, aren't we?

We look like what we think chemists in the kitchen might look like.

Right?

We go to we get our goggles.

We have our pocket for important information, right?

Yes, maybe a nametag.

We also have a pencil tucked in right here.

We wearing a. Pencil, as I recall, Elizabeth, that the protagonist in the story always had one tucked in her long hair.

We both have shorthand where it might fall out, but we're going to we're going to try to keep it in.

Right.

We have our goggles.

We're prepared for anything that flies up, even food.

You're going to be whipping cream, so you're protecting it.

Yeah, exactly right.

Things might fly in the kitchen here.

Well, when we started talking about this book, I didn't realize it was one of the most popular books of this year.

And so many people have read it.

It's on standby at every bookstore.

But I just wanted to say, what was your impression of her as the protagonist?

Well, you know, this is an interesting time period, right?

Because 1960s is the setting.

And at that time, there was not a lot of recognition for women who had professional careers.

And I think what was great about Elizabeth Zott is she was no nonsense.

Right.

Absolutely.

Had high expectations for herself and for others.

And I think she just really, you know, pushed the envelope.

She did the story, but she.

Didn't say, I'm going to push the envelope.

No!

she just Lived it.

She lived that way.

And I think that's why we had some progress in in the field.

She just didn't say, well, I'm going to get this man and I'm angry.

No, I know what I want and I know what I need.

Yes.

But you know, it was the right career for her, wasn't it?

It was the right career for her, although certainly she struggled along the way, not because of her own talents, but because of society.

Right.

And judgment against women in professional careers, especially male dominated.

Yes.

And she she loses a position because she can criticize the head of the chemistry department for using her paper.

Right.

With his name on it.

He published it.

And, of course, all of a sudden she's been demoted.

And and I guess it was learning how to play the game and they had to be very clever.

These women at that time.

Really still felt like a chess game to me.

It's like.

Yes, right.

Have you ever been in that kind of a situation?

Well, you know, I think you and I both probably recall times in early in our lives where there weren't as many things accessible to women.

Credit cards.

Yes.

Car loans.

Yes.

I remember the first time I tried to get a car, buy a car myself.

The salesperson said, bring your husband in and you know.

Oh.

Or receive a credit card.

Yeah, you had to be in your husband's name.

Anyway, that was the history.

Thankfully, it's not that way now.

Right.

So she's in this very male dominated industry, I should say, her field.

And it's an uphill battle for her.

And people like her, they don't know quite how to take her because she's so serious in her pursuit of this.

And along the way she has to resign or she loses the job and she finds out she can become the host of a cooking show.

She does a cooking show.

I know it sort of happened randomly.

Because her daughter whose name is Mad, by the way, we should talk about.

Yes.

And the producer of the cooking show on television had a daughter in the same class.

And that's how Mad always shared her lunch with the producers daughter.

He figured out she's a good cook.

Yes.

Yes.

And apparently asked her to host a show which came in handy when she lost her job at the Research Institute.

Yes, exactly.

And she became a star and it is this story, too, of soon as she becomes the host of this show.

Well, let's talk first.

Let's talk about the food we're making.

We can kind of then get to the show.

So what are we cooking today?

Well, because chemistry is involved in the cooking show, right?

This is the start of the pâte à choux dough, the dough that you use to make cream puffs.

So I've got milk, water, sugar, a little salt in there, butter.

I am going to bring that up to a slow simmer and just keep it stirring.

You can see it's all nicely mixing.

Really, what happens is the eventually the eggs that will go in there will bond with the flour and the dough will stretch.

That's the chemistry and the steam inside makes them puff.

There you.

Go.

Chemistry.

This is chemistry right in front of your very eyes.

This is how she teaches her cooking class and and at first, people are wondering she's using such terms as well.

I've brought my.

Let's see, what is it?

My Acetic acid, right?

Yes.

So and and then she's got her word for salt and the women are.

Kind of sodium chloride.

But all of a sudden.

She hears the rustling.

Women are pulling out pencils and paper and they're writing all this down.

Right.

And they this show grows on people.

It she always has this pencil.

So we thought we better we better be dressed for the show.

Right?

We have our lab coats and we're ready.

I think what's fun is really everybody in the TV station thought it was a total disaster, right?

Yes.

But immediately, as you said, the phone started ringing.

People were asking questions and guess the show's success was because Elizabeth talked to women in a serious, thoughtful manner.

Yes.

She didn't say, oh, honey is here.

We're going to do something.

You're out.

Your husband's going to love this.

You know, she was very factual.

These women were being taken seriously.

And the men that run this show and the advertiser, he they are pulling their hair out.

We want something.

Where's?

Where's her tight dress?

Why is she doing this?

And then she tears the set apart because it's all filled with nonsense, all kinds of stuffed things and rubber bands.

You've seen those on set pieces for a show and she has a good time with that.

But she doesn't go "oh oh oh, I'm going to make trouble".

She wants it to be a working kitchen, right?

Yeah.

Well, I'm starting here with my rice, which I will have for my.

What do I call this?

I've already forgotten.

It is a poule.

It is a French chicken provencal and I cooked some of the chicken ahead of time because it does take quite a while.

I have some chicken thighs.

I've I've cut up in some thyme we have four chalets that I've trimmed and I've added some of these pimentos, which I just love, but a lot of a lot of people don't like them.

Then I'm going to be adding some green onion, green olives, and this is very southern France and green olives, or they can be black olive and then we will use a whole pint of tomatoes and put that around.

It's really a simple dish and you just use some herbs and spices.

Now I've got the olive, I've got the capers.

I'm going to put a little cheese in at the end, and then we will slice some chunks of lemon and that goes into the dish on top.

And then I had true real thyme sprigs and that's in here.

And I know they're going to be some lemon seeds, but who cares?

They're going to be cooked.

So here we go.

This is this is we did have a chicken dish.

in this book.

One of the things that we like to make on the cooking show was a chicken casserole.

So here it.

Is.

And I just wanted to say, I've got my dough out.

It kind of comes together in a ball.

I'm just going to let it cool for about 5 minutes.

I don't want it to be cold.

And in the meantime, I'm going to make the filling for the cream puffs.

So this is funny to me.

This is because you you make everything from scratch.

You usually make everything.

I have for.

You to you.

And homemade vanilla pudding by scratch is pretty easy.

Is it really?

You can't walk away.

You have to stay and.

Have to stay in the kitchen.

Remember, that's my motto, stay in the kitchen.

But in the 1940s, instant pudding came about and talk about total chemistry.

This is total chemistry, right?

What makes instant pudding get thick is the fact that it has gelatinized starch.

When that mixes with cold milk, it solidifies.

And of course, sugar is also a thickener.

And so we're going to use instant pudding.

Besides, it will be fast.

So it is.

Fast, isn't it?

All the ingredients are right and you are forgiven I know you like everything from scratch It's all about chemistry, right?

So that was her specialty.

Well, as you're doing that, I am going to put my chicken in the oven and we will add some minutes.

This has to be cooking, but 45 minutes to an hour.

In goes the milk.

Look at that.

So we are doing what Elizabeth would have done again.

She would have mentioned, just like you, that you really want to make this from scratch.

Right?

She would.

But certainly the.

Chemistry is really interesting.

Of sugar.

I was researching the molecular formula of sucrose.

It's a molecule of glucose and a molecule of fructose bonded together to make white sugar.

All right.

And on that note, as you are beating your pudding here, we're going to take a break.

We're going to show you the menu.

And when you come back, wow, we're going to keep going here.

We're going to keep up with Elizabeth and tell you more about her life and what's going on.

We'll be right back.

And we're back.

And I just want to mention that I got some rice cooking for my poule provencal.

So and we're going to go now to the pièce de résistance.

We're starting with Evie, who is mixing this cream pastry her pâte à choux and she's going to dazzle you.

All right.

I'm just I can't believe what she's doing.

I just added the eggs, and now you just beat it until it gets glossy.

Yeah, just making sure it's all incorporated takes a couple of minutes to make that happen.

You can do this by hand, which I've done.

Just kind of a little bit of work.

It takes well and it takes some time.

You know, she's strong.

She's also a rower.

Elizabeth Zott is.

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Elizabeth is a rower.

So she's strong.

And she's they do let her come.

And the men look at her oddly like, what is she doing here?

But she comes in and she.

Figured it out.

She ended up being a really good rower.

Right.

So this is pretty good.

We want it to be glossy.

So what I'm going to do now is put it in a plastic bag because that's what I'm going to use to pipe onto the baking sheet.

They do take a little while to bake.

So I pre-baked some.

You did.

And while you're doing that, I'm going to top off this last one.

I'm taking the top off and this is so much fun because everything's working.

And the fun thing about Cream Puff is, as I mentioned earlier, the steam makes pressure inside that dough as it bakes, puffs it up, and then it makes it hollow inside.

So you can see each one of those is hollow, that's what.

And we'll fill it with our our pudding.

And just a little bit.

This is chemistry in action.

It is.

And, you know, the next thing you're going to do is really amazing.

And your children could learn to do this.

They would love to do this.

Some of the other sidebar characters are in part important in this Harriet, the neighbor, can come over and watch a little Mad.. Madeleine, while Elizabeth does her cooking or she runs into the lab to find out why they haven't done this for her or that.

And then you have the dog.

The dog is trained to go and pick up Madeleine at school.

When it's time he knows when to go.

Or Harriet says, okay, go now and pick up Madeleine.

And he does.

He trots her home and the man who is the producer for the show, his name starts with the W what?

Walter.

Walter?

They become fast friends and he understands.

He learns about what it takes to be, you know, a woman in the workplace.

And so these are all people that are so important.

But the second basic character, I think, is Madeleine, her daughter, who is five and she looks seven, and she can read sixth grade level because her mother treats her as an adult.

And they have a wonderful time.

Now, isn't that beautiful?

Those are ready to go in the oven.

Gosh, that's it.

They'll pop up, takes about 30 minutes, which is why I went ahead and pre.

Oh, right.

I'm just going to set these aside.

Yes, set them aside because the chicken is baking eventually.

And now for the big moment.

The big moment.

Kind of fun.

This is called density gradient lemonade.

It's made with simple syrup, which is just equal parts of sugar and water.

Yes.

And heat it up to help that sugar absorb and lemon juice.

But each of these layers has a little bit a decreasing amount of the simple syrup.

So what that does is it sets up a density gradient.

The heavier, sweeter, more simple sirup stays on the bottom.

So really the trick is if you make if you add food coloring, that helps it be more durable in terms of the layers.

And she's got her beaker Now the first one, that's the heaviest one.

We can just pour that one in, but the.

Heaviest density goes to the.

Lot, goes to the bottom.

The second one, if we don't be careful, it'll all mix.

So the little bartender trick is you pour over the back of a spoon.

Really small.

Hidden talents, Evie That's terrific.

Yeah.

So it's not mixing with the yellow?

No, the yellow stays on the bottom.

Not as dense.

Right.

So it's all chemistry.

Yeah.

So we find.

Hey, Gail you want to get the pudding out of the refrigerator?

I love to do that.

That would.

Be great, because I.

Would really love it.

fill, the cream puffs with that instant pudding.

It's actually another.

Trick is it's always good if you can.

I'll give a little spoon here.

Excuse me.

Right.

So one of these layers.

I didn't have any food coloring, so that's the layer I'm working on right now.

The ice cubes do help to slow that pour down.

So really slow.

There we go.

I don't think you do this for a group of 20, though.

You know what, though?

It would be super fun if.

You let them do.

It.

Let them do it right.

Like I could see doing this for, you know, pre-teen birthday party because the lemonade actually is really tasty.

So should I stir this up a little or shall I start filling some?

You want to fill?

I'll start.

It.

Time to fill it out because.

All right, then you fill.

I fill all that instant pudding.

It's already solid.

See it's amazing.

To is it is that's the importance of chemistry and so you can put it here if you want or.

I'm going to do it right.

Here.

You're through with.

This thank you.

Literally all the cream puffs are hollow.

I'm just going to put this in there.

See3 it's just magic how she does this, you know, chemistry.

I was going to say, while I'm filling this, one of the things I really did like about the book, because there's there's quite a bit of drama and intensity, right?

Oh, yes.

There's some there's some warning chapters that kind of, you know, go back to the days when the men took over in a very forceful way.

Her love life.

Calvin had a really rough childhood.

He was in an orphanage.

He ends up getting killed.

And in the book.

When she's going to have a baby and she didn't think she was going to do that.

And so but she does this talk about her kitchen, what she does to engage her daughter and to work at home.

When she was let go from the research institute, she gutted her kitchen and turned it into a chem lab, a chemistry lab, so that she could do things like make coffee on a Bunsen burner.

Yes.

I don't know why you would do that, but.

Well, she's a scientist.

You like she likes using her particular apparatus.

And she and the lady across the way said, what, you've done 20 steps, or you could just use the Folgers and make coffee.

But she said, Oh, it's the best I ever had.

Yeah.

So Harriet the neighbor does play a nice role, doesn't she?

Is there to save her whenever she needs a babysitter, where she wants to go rowing.

Harriet is absolutely delighted to get out of the house because her husband is annoying.

Yes, he's really annoying.

And.

And so, you know, we have just a few minutes to talk about all of our food.

You're filling up your.

Little cream puffs, I'm going to put them on a little dish.

Oh, yes.

And here are the drinks made possible by chemistry and Evie Yeah.

Isn't this nice?

Really nice.

You know, one thing we're lacking is we're lacking 6:30 here in the studio, right?

The dog.

The dog?

Yeah.

The dog was named by the fact that it came home one day with Elizabeth, as I recall, Calvin, her significant other hollers out the window, some question, and Elizabeth looks at her watch and says, 6:30.

And that's what they assumed the dog's name was.

And so it's stuck.

Yes, dog's name.

And I'm going to bring out my chicken.

My poule it's not quite done, but it's done enough to present itself.

It smells great.

I put it here.

We want to talk about our food and some French people don't use cheese on top.

Do you notice you go to a restaurant and get cheese in your soup, cheese in your salad and cheese in the main dish?

That's probably is too much.

A lot of.

Cheese, but I'm going to put a little Parmesan on it.

And so we have the we have the chicken casserole from the book.

We have the cream puffs made possible by chemistry.

Yes.

One thing I will mention, I didn't pipe all the dough.

You can save this dough for like four days in the refrigerator and bake it later.

So that's a nice little timesaver in you.

That's the last one.

The last one.

It doesn't fit on my plate, so I just have to eat this.

Well, you may have to eat it.

You may just have to do.

That to add a little more confectioners sugar, too.

This one, it doesn't fit on my plate.

I am just putting the last of the confectioners sugar.

That just gives it a little.

Wonderful.

Just wonderful.

Yeah.

You know, speaking of pizzazz, I know we talked about Elizabeth being an avid rower.

Yes.

It's really popular on the Saint Joseph River, right in our area.

Yes, it is.

It is very popular all over the place.

Take a look.

We'll be right back.

Let's just review our food.

I did some rice for my chicken, my classic chicken poulet provence.

and Cream Puffs Cream puffs and the density gradient lemonade in multicolored.

Layers.

That's my favorite.

It's festive as I.

Think it's very festive.

Children would love to do that.

Birthday party.

Birthday party.

Yes.

You want to talk about Julia Child?

Well, you and I were chatting quite a while while we were reading this book about how Elizabeth Zott reminded you of Julia Child.

And I was intrigued by that.

You know, the sense that Julia didn't have a scientific lab that she looked over, but she did everything by the book.

When she first started, she learned how the French made their food.

But she she was very worried the first few seasons.

But later on, she relaxed and she had the same kind of output and businesslike sense spoke her mind.

Yeah, she doesn't.

Exactly what she she asked me.

I met her and she said I spoke French to her.

Oh, oh, do they speak French in the Midwest?

And it was just, you know, she just got to the point and that was it.

Right.

And it's kind of similar to Elizabeth's Zott.

But Elizabeth is this sophisticated blond and all of that.

Read the book.

It's fun.

Fun.

It is fun.

It's it's it's not a serious take on chemistry, but it's a fun take on woman's life in the sixties in science.

Thank you for coming.

Thank you for having me.

You always do a great job.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

And thank you for joining us.

We'll see you next time.

Remember, good food, good friends, good books, good science makes for a very good life.

We'll see you next time.

This WNIT local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

Dinner and A Book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.

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